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World of Warcraft has been a really strong frame of reference for many fans, as it's the most developed and longest running game of the series. So it definitely seems there's a need for that consistency now--especially with how different Warcraft III looks in retrospect.
Sousa: Right. Some of the things that were done for Warcraft III are either straight up reusing models or texture swaps. When you get into World of Warcraft, the Blood Elves have been completely defined now. I remember, they did the huge expansion with the Blood Elves, and so now we can say, 'Okay, this is what blood elf buildings look like, this is what the Fel Orcs look like, this is what the fel orc buildings.' Rather than going back to Warcraft III and what they originally looked like, we can go to what World of Warcraft has done and amplify it from there.
Stilwell: And the good news is just like with StarCraft: Remastered, if you're the purist who wants to come and play the original game, it will still be there. You will still be able to go through the the original experience. We even have some folks on our team that are purists like that. The way we strike that balance is by making it an option. Like, you want the original VO, here it is. You want the original game truly, like in the campaign missions, here it is.
Sousa: Well, even with the Reforged UI, we've created a smaller, more compact UI, so you can see more of the screen, and the UI is not as intrusive. But even within Blizzard, it's like 'can I still play with the old UI?' We're like, 'yes, you can still play with the old UI.' We're giving you an option to play with a new one, but if you still like the one that covers a quarter of the screen, you can play that way.
It must be refreshing for you to be able to return to the roots of Warcraft as an RTS. While many fans love all that WoW has done, there is still that portion of the fanbase that wants to see more RTS games in the series.
Stilwell: Yeah, it's cathartic. Having played a ton of both games, playing WoW more recently before going back to War III, you realize the true influence that War III had on it. I wasn't lucky enough to be with the company at the time, but the guys were coming off making that one into the other, so of course, it was baked into them what this world should be and how we can take it to the next level. I think, for most of us, you don't realize how much of that foundation was there until you go back.
Even some of the campaign missions, where there's a little what we would now call a side quest and not just a little distraction on the map. It's almost like an Easter egg in Warcraft III, but you now realize that's in South Shore, or that's in Westfall, and that's exactly like the people that you run into on the cart that have their deeds in Westfall. I'm expecting a lot of players will be like, 'Hey, they stole that from WOW,' and it will be like, 'No, no, no, it was here first.' This is the foundation of that. I think that's what is so cool about it, is seeing how truly interconnected they really are.
Sousa: Yeah, for myself it was surprising to see so much from what I've played of WoW. I haven't played War III for 15 years, but going back through the arc and knowing that so much from World of Warcraft was based on Warcraft III, like, I thought World of Warcraft came up with that. I was like, 'Oh my gosh, this all came from Warcraft III.' Now we have that opportunity to bring those to life and glory compared to what the old school used to look like.
Stilwell: And some of that is wrapped up in the tech. Most people probably won't know, WoW's engine was based off of Warcraft III's engine. They just kind of took it, built it up, retrofitted a few things, and suddenly it's the WoW engine. We've kind of taken where they evolved War III's engine, and then ported it over to ourselves and taken a lot of their technology, and now we're putting even more on top of it. Even on the backend, something most people won't see, or understand, or care about, is that these games are so intertwined not just in story, but in actual creation. It's really cool.
In recent times, the RTS has fallen a bit by the wayside in favor of other genres. Most particularly the MOBA genre, which was ironically started as a Warcraft III mod. With this game, will you be looking closely at how all fans respond to this?
Stilwell: We want to be sensitive to the fact that, again, we think we have such a strong story here. If, for no other reason, we love players of other genres, and not just MOBA, but like World of Warcraft itself is very similar in that you kind of have a central player character, and you have a lot of cool abilities. They're very similar from an archetype, so giving them an avenue to come into the campaign and be comfortable with that and not be daunted by building a city, and destroying the other guy's city, and things like that, are things we are definitely thinking about, and good design challenges for our design team. Again, with that idea of Reforged, of like, let's make a version that those people can come in, really enjoy, and maybe become at RTS player on their second playthrough, where they play the hard setting and really actually get pushed to play RTS.
Sousa: Yeah, Warcraft III did not have the easy mode. It was either hard or really hard, and so now, even me, I remember playing missions over, and over, and over. This is a really hard game, so getting in there and making it a little bit more accessible for today's players, at least, to get into the RTS genre. This RTS has been around for 15 years. It's still around, people are still playing it, so we're not too worried about redefining the RTS because this already has a huge community, right, and we're not looking to change how Warcraft plays. We just want it to be a little bit more accessible and look better for today's players.
So even with the success that World of Warcraft has had over the years, do you still that there's room for a potential sequel to the traditional Warcraft RTS?
Stilwell: I mean, I wouldn't rule anything out, but we don't have any plans around that at this point. Getting this game right, I think, is our priority first and foremost. By that, I don't just mean like shipping Reforged, but like getting the gameplay to a state where people are like, hey, this is done because with SCR, you could look at it and they said, 'Hey, you don't need to change balance. We can tell that a really good player of one race is going to beat the other. Not because this race has something cheesy that they can do that an inferior player can best a better one.' We want to get Warcraft III into that state too, where it's like, hey, everybody agrees that it's the player and not a benefit of the faction that they were playing.
Sousa: So, yeah, the balance changes that we've been making are very small, focusing on like what makes this hero playable or unplayable? Why do people always play this way rather than this way? We're focusing on getting small changes in there. To hopefully shake up the game a little bit, people will start playing different heroes with different strategies. That will kind of keep the community alive.
Once this comes out, what are some of your big hopes for the game? It seems like you're in a really interesting position to reintroduce fans to the RTS side of Warcraft, while also gaining a new following.
Stilwell: Yeah, those are certainly things that we're hoping for, to bring new players in, to reestablish what an epic story this is, and what a great game it is. Beyond that, there's so much potential built into the custom game community, and if we're having a bunch of people coming back, and they also explore what other creative people are making with this game, that there's a whole different tale there for people to explore and be a part to. That, to me, are kind of the big pieces.
Sousa: Yeah, because already the mods that people have created, playing the Reforged version will be completely compatible, right. It will just automatically work. Where the community will have to rally around is any unique artwork that has been done by the players themselves that have brought into the games. Those will have to be done, but we're also going to be putting out our tools and some guides, so they can really recreate art and even mod it even more. We're really trying to support the community on this.
Stilwell: I think, if at the end of this we hear the community shout, 'We love this, now we want more,' that will be our ultimate success.
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